A student of journalism (you didn’t say which university, Frida) wrote me an email and said, “Biko, I love your interviews, could you write a piece about the rules of doing profile interviews?” Which probably means this will bore you to death if you are in HR, or IT or finance (gulp) or you are mundu wá biacara. But a lady asked, and she used the magic words that tingled my soul. So I will indulge her.
You probably don’t read The Business Daily. It’s that brown newspaper. Smells of fresh-cut timber. I contribute to the Business Profile section of the Friday magazine in said newspaper, BD Life, which is where we interview the big boys and girls in business. I’ve interviewed a good number of them. Mention a name and I have probably sat with them or I’m planning to. Some I continue to chase. It’s a grind mostly; a conveyor belt of highly successful men and women in their power suits and fancy pens. Which means you deal with egos and success and everything that comes with it. Mostly, successful people smell nice. That’s what I have learnt. I can smell success right off the lift.
This is how it goes: You write an email to the subject and you wait. I hate writing official emails because you have to sound professional and use affected and overused phrases like, “I hope this finds you well” or “herein” or, worse, “Kind regards.” Plus you can’t use a smiley – because smileys are threatening. You can’t even make a subtle gag. Or finish off the email with “cheers!” It’s like writing to a parole board. Do we have those in Kenya?
Anyway, so they write back and ask you for a set of questions you will ask because they want to rehearse before a mirror in the morning as they floss their teeth. Normally I send questions I won’t bother asking. A date is fixed.
I hate doing those profile interviews in the offices of the subject because of home ground advantage but also because the office means they are in their familiar office-mode. Plus if you offend them, you may need to use the fire escape. I prefer neutral ground, like a café. I love early morning interviews in almost empty cafes. The smell of coffee. Fresh-faced waitresses.
Sometimes you have to chase down an interviewee. Especially if it’s a really big fish because big fish don’t need your interview, plus they have so many minders and your requests are often sat on by someone in striped pants.
In 2008 I chased Sir Charles Njonjo for many agonizing months. His people stalled and then ultimately went silent. But I kept trying and finally I gave up. Then one day almost a year later, I was at Rhino Charge in Laikipia and this chopper lands in this field and who do I see climbing off this chopper? Sir Charles! In a white linen shirt, looking like a saint walking through this plume of dust, flanked by two stern-looking minders. So I walked up to him and introduced myself and told him that I had been looking for him for ages and he was amiable and amused and he said “come to my office on Tuesday” and because I was wet-behind-the-ears I made the mistake of showing up in jeans and he spent 5-minutes scolding me. Hehe. I sat there staring at my shoes but I got my great interview.
Anyway. Where were we? Yes. Interview date and time is here.
You pitch up earlier than the agreed time. Always keep time. When you keep time you are saying you respect your trade but also that you respect the other person’s time. Don’t be those journalists who show up twenty minutes late, panting profusely, wiping sweat off their brows and fumbling for their notebook and looking bewildered, dark patches under their armpits. You can’t possibly think in that state.
Be that guy who goes early and remains so cool your eyebrows start collecting frost. Showing up before the subject also gives you time to align your energy to the energy of room. Which means when the subject finally shows up he will be getting into your energy stream, not the other way round. Which means you will own that shit.
Then the common courtesies. Get off your ass when they walk into the room and shake their hands. Firm handshake. No sweaty and clammy palms like you have been preparing prawns. Look them in the eye. Always look them in the eye. Be polite. If it’s a lady find something you like about her and compliment it; “That’s an eccentric colour of scarf, I like it!”; “Nice watch, which one is it?” “I love your hairstyle!” “You smell terrific, what scent is that?” Try not to compliment their bodies. In fact, don’t compliment their bodies. (Unless you are interviewing Vera Sidika, I guess) So don’t mention the interviewee’s hips or legs or lips – however good they may look. Same applies to the male interviewees. Hehe. [“Sir, has anyone told you that your lips are like L. L Cool J’s?]
I think to be a great interviewer you have to genuinely love listening to people. You have to be curious. But the trick is to always listen to what people don’t say – the sub-texts – that’s where the story is. But nobody will talk to you if they don’t trust you. You have probably 4 mins or less to break the ice and develop a rapport. Explain to them that they can go off the record and you will respect that.
What I have learnt over the years interviewing people is that people love talking about themselves. Helps your work. So you have to let them. Some will drift. They will start talking about stuff that you aren’t interested in. If you are on the clock you have to tactfully bring them back on track from that windy monologue about something. I once interviewed Titus Naikuni – amiable and warm interviewee – and at some point the conversation drifted to cows and he jumped up and went to his computer and opened this folder with cows in it. And we stood there as he showed me all these massive healthy (and happy) cows which he is extremely passionate about and I remember feeling ants crawl up my pants because I was told that I had only 30mins after which he had another meeting, but he wasn’t stopping talking about his cows and it took all my diplomacy to get him back on tract.
Women are harder to interview than men. They are too cautious. Too controlled. To wary. Most are boring. They will go off the record more often. They will worry what their in-laws will think, what their friends will think. They are harder to photograph because they have to make their hair and do their eyes and wear the right dress. Too managed. Caucasians are easier to interview than black folk; they just don’t care what you or anyone else thinks of them. They offer sound bites after sound bites.
The common practice is to always read up on subjects before you interview them for a profile interview. I guess that’s what they tell you in journalism school. I hold a different opinion. Yes, I will look at your bio profile (usually sent by their people) or Linkdin and that’s it. I always feel that when you read previous interviews of subjects you form an opinion before you meet them. Unconsciously you imagine you know them. But when you go in with an empty mind you are going in to create a template from which someone else will do his research. It’s cocky, I know, but it works.
Don’t be nervous. They won’t eat you. But if you are really afraid then interview them after lunch when they have had their lunch. I have only been nervous once. Michael Joseph. I was warned that he would bully me. That he would eat my heart for lunch and that he didn’t suffer fools. That he would not see me if I was a min late. So I got to his office early. I was put in this large intimidating boardroom with solid dark woods and leather. It was so silent in there, just me and my thoughts and my heartbeat. This was the height of MPESA explosion. Then finally he walked in; thin uncertain smile, piercing eyes and a body language that seemed to say; “OK, let’s get on with it.” And I did. Only he would stare so intently at me, as if daring me to ask a stupid question and I remember thinking to myself, “think of him in an old vest written “Keep Kids Off Drugs” like that would help. He hardly smiled. I usually crack jokes in interviews but with him I sat their stiff, like a Mummy.
It’s never what you ask but how you ask it. Don’t be crass. Don’t be afraid to ask personal questions. But don’t ask colorless questions like “What are your hobbies?” It’s not a date, for chrissake. Don’t ask, “What inspires you?” It’s cheesy. Throw a wench in the works. Rock the boat a bit. Make them slightly uncomfortable. A bad interviewee is one who is too comfortable. Let them never predict what you will ask next. So ask them simple but non-threatening questions; are you happy? How long have you had your barber? When were you the saddest in your life? What do you think that hairstyle says about you? What are you afraid I will ask you right now? These odd questions will open doors into amazing insights of the person.
Then there are PR people. Sometimes a PR person will sit in the interview to make sure the subject doesn’t say stuff that will create a fire they will have to put out later. I never mind PR people sitting in my interviews because normally they don’t say anything, they sit there and pretend to be very busy on their phones. I once interviewed this CEO, 55-years old, an ardent runner. His PR people had warned me that he was a “family man” who was “private.” We sat at Serena’s Aksum bar and the guy turned out to be not as private as his PR people had imagined and we were there getting along famously then I threw a curve ball by asking him, “do you find that running helps with your libido and sex life at your age?” and the PR chic almost fainted. Hehe. “No Biko, you can’t ask that!” she cried. So I explained why it was a valid question and the CEO agreed to answer it on the record. The lesson here is; when people trust you they will give you a lot of rope.
My greatest weakness as in interviewer is that I have an attention span of a tsetse fly. I drift when I get bored and worse, it shows in my body language. And it’s rude. I don’t let interviews go beyond one hour because after that I won’t hear shit. I will have checked out of the room. I will be staring at your lips move but I will be at a beach somewhere. Or I will be thinking; whatever happened to Mr.T?
I use my Samsung Note 4 to record all my interviews. (Best Note ever). But I also carry a notepad to jot down questions that come up in my head as the interviewee speaks. The most boring part of the interview is when I have to sit down later and listen to the interview again and transcribe it word for word then re-write it “verbatim” in order to retain the persons “voice.” There are certain words that are unique to certain people. You have to retain that voice.
Some people will say no to you. It’s not personal. I once scheduled an interview with Martin Oduor when he was then at KCB and when I walked into his office he said that he had thought about it and he felt that he couldn’t go through with it. He was a gentleman about it. I was disappointed of course because then I had to find someone to replace him asap. I once sat down with someone at Chase Bank and after the interview we shook hands but before I left the building he sent their PR to tell me he didn’t want the interview to run. “Was it my shirt? Was it my beard he didn’t like?” I asked. I was so pissed off I had a headache the whole day. And half the next day.
Never put words in someone’s mouth. Never write what you think they meant. Write what they said. Sometimes people will say innocent things on the record because of the heat of the moment but that when you listen to again as you transcribe might sound like something that might hurt their image. Save them. Don’t include that in because it won’t serve you any good at all if you end up embarrassing them all for an irreverent quote. It’s generally in bad taste to throw someone under the bus in a public forum. It wrinkles your soul.
Mostly have fun! Make it lively. Joke with them. Poke fun at them. Laugh at them. It’s pointless not to have fun. But most importantly you have to leave that room with a lesson. You will always learn something new from anybody you talk to.
Lastly, NEVER send your story to the interviewee to look at before it’s published. Some will ask. Others will demand. It’s insulting to you as a professional. And it shows their glaring insecurity. Say no. Say you don’t have it, the dog ate it.
Frida. I hope this helps.